In Parmigiani Fleurier, one discovers an entirely unlikely success story; like so many of these, it appeared to happen virtually overnight yet it was decades in the making. No doubt you know that this is about the Tonda PF collection since this was the family of watches that changed the trajectory of the brand back in 2021. This much is obvious, and thus conventional wisdom also has it that the person responsible here is none other than CEO Guido Terreni. The man himself is not so quick to embrace this role in the story so far, although he certainly agrees that Parmigiani Fleurier is on the road to a brighter future. We think he deserves credit at least as the navigator but also as the architect of the narrative.

In the most recent Morgan-Stanley report on the state of the Swiss watch industry, Parmigiani Fleurier powered into the top 50 brands (at number 46) for the first time. While this report, and others like it, are merely indicative rather than definitive, it still highlights how far the brand has come in a few short years. Back in 2020, as lockdowns were being eased here, we wrote that collectors and the community should take the trouble to reacquaint themselves with Parmigiani Fleurier. Then the firm affirmed our interest with the release of the Tonda GT Sport, by far the most handsome and commercially oriented collection to bear the Parmigiani Fleurier badge.

Terreni, who took the helm at Parmigiani Fleurier in early 2021, told us that he felt the foundations of a great collection of watches began with the Tonda GT Sport. At the same time, he wanted to take things further because he saw Parmigiani Fleurier as a brand with “a gentle and understated soul,” and something like the Tonda GT Sports could easily have veered into aggressive territory; there was already a built-in motorsports angle here after all. Instead, Terreni made a bet on the understated qualities of Parmigiani Fleurier, which critics had long charged were holding the brand back. Terreni’s answer was to go quiet and transform the brand by doing the unthinkable in watchmaking: removing the brand name from the dial.

Yes, the Tonda PF only has a cartouche with the brand logo on the dial, a logo that had never been used this way dial-side before. By the end of 2021, the new Tonda PF was already making waves, and we managed to shoot it for our cover that year (#63). Three years later, the virtues of the Tonda PF collection are well known, and it is apparent that the shift to using a badge instead of the brand name is evident elsewhere too, even in the unique creations such as the L’Armoriale pocket watch (see Highlights this issue). To be sure, using a logo instead of a full brand name, even when the founder is still very much in the picture, is relatively odd. In watchmaking, considering how small the product is, you might think this nothing much but you would be wrong. Swiss watchmaking is nothing if not conservative and you only have to scan through various interviews with Terreni to see how often he got asked about this. For the record, we asked him to in our last two chats with him.

For this most recent meeting between ourselves and Terreni, we skipped the brand name questions and went in decidedly more idiosyncratic directions.

We did not get a chance to get into your thoughts on Watches and Wonders Geneva when we met there so let’s start there.

Well, I am very fond of international watch fairs like Watches and Wonders Geneva, especially qualitative ones. This year (2023) we set our second appointment with the industry, with clients and with the press in a continuation of what we had done the year before, when we returned to (a physical fair) and put Parmigiani Fleurier back on the watchmaking map.

To me, this fair in particular should be THE real appointment of the industry. I would love that every brand showcases at Watches and Wonders Geneva because it’s a week in which the public tunes in on watches; watches are not a purchase one makes frequently (when it comes to the broader public). So not everybody’s really following what the brands are doing (all the time) and if you’re buying a watch every five-10 years, it’s not like you follow the industry like people who are in the industry. So having an appointment in which everybody knows that there’s something to follow and (events that one can track) to me is very instrumental.

So you are positive on the public days then?

I was used to this in (the now-defunct) BaselWorld, which was open to the public and was ticketed. The public, the trade and the press were not separated; they were all together (although appointments were needed to walk into the private spaces within brand booths).

Here, at Watches and Wonders Geneva, the organisers prefer to have some separation because the space is smaller, so for logistical reasons, it has to be this way (the PalExpo space for Watches and Wonders Geneva is likely smaller than just Hall 1 of BaselWorld, for some context – Ed). This year, there will be three days dedicated to the public and I think (all brands will) be more ready this year than last year. The public took us by surprise in 2023. There were more than 10,000 visitors over two days and the average age was 35. It was really people who were in the early days of understanding what watches (and the hobby of collecting watches) is about. You have to invest in (improving and raising the) knowledge of the audience, and it doesn’t matter if they will not buy immediately. At least they grow their interest and they get to touch and feel the products; (the fair) becomes their introduction to the brands.

”You have to invest in (improving and raising the) knowledge of the audience, and it doesn’t matter if they will not buy immediately”

This speaks to something we discussed previously – all the new people drawn to watchmaking. How does Parmigiani Fleurier speak to this group, while balancing the needs of the established collectors?

Well, it’s quite natural; I think you have to adapt…to customise your talking points. (If someone already knows the brand story) you can skip this and directly go on to a subject that is specific and deeper. It all depends on who you have in front of you. So usually people go shopping in a physical store to be educated, because they have been introduced to the watch or the brand when they saw it on the wrist of a friend, or they read about it. There is a sort of research that the customer does – especially when going up in price (of any given watch), you are often going deeper into watchmaking content. Of course, not everybody is a watch lover. A lot of people are just buying the watch for the hype or because it’s cool…they like the aesthetics. What drives people is personal, you know, so the brand has to relate to the audience individually.

We did not get a chance to get into your thoughts on Watches and Wonders Geneva when we met there so let’s start there.

Well, I am very fond of international watch fairs like Watches and Wonders Geneva, especially qualitative ones. This year (2023) we set our second appointment with the industry, with clients and with the press in a continuation of what we had done the year before, when we returned to (a physical fair) and put Parmigiani Fleurier back on the watchmaking map.

To me, this fair in particular should be THE real appointment of the industry. I would love that every brand showcases at Watches and Wonders Geneva because it’s a week in which the public tunes in on watches; watches are not a purchase one makes frequently (when it comes to the broader public). So not everybody’s really following what the brands are doing (all the time) and if you’re buying a watch every five-10 years, it’s not like you follow the industry like people who are in the industry. So having an appointment in which everybody knows that there’s something to follow and (events that one can track) to me is very instrumental.

So you are positive on the public days then?

I was used to this in (the now-defunct) BaselWorld, which was open to the public and was ticketed. The public, the trade and the press were not separated; they were all together (although appointments were needed to walk into the private spaces within brand booths).

Here, at Watches and Wonders Geneva, the organisers prefer to have some separation because the space is smaller, so for logistical reasons, it has to be this way (the PalExpo space for Watches and Wonders Geneva is likely smaller than just Hall 1 of BaselWorld, for some context – Ed). This year, there will be three days dedicated to the public and I think (all brands will) be more ready this year than last year. The public took us by surprise in 2023. There were more than 10,000 visitors over two days and the average age was 35. It was really people who were in the early days of understanding what watches (and the hobby of collecting watches) is about. You have to invest in (improving and raising the) knowledge of the audience, and it doesn’t matter if they will not buy immediately. At least they grow their interest and they get to touch and feel the products; (the fair) becomes their introduction to the brands.

This speaks to something we discussed previously – all the new people are drawn to watchmaking. How does Parmigiani Fleurier speak to this group, while balancing the needs of the established collectors?

Well, it’s quite natural; I think you have to adapt…to customise your talking points. (If someone already knows the brand story) you can skip this and directly go on to a subject that is specific and deeper. It all depends on who you have in front of you. So usually people go shopping in a physical store to be educated, because they have been introduced to the watch or the brand when they saw it on the wrist of a friend, or they read about it. There is a sort of research that the customer does – especially when going up in price (of any given watch), you are often going deeper into watchmaking content. Of course, not everybody is a watch lover. A lot of people are just buying the watch for the hype or because it’s cool…they like the aesthetics. What drives people is personal, you know, so the brand has to relate to the audience individually.

”A collector or watch lover likes to browse and compare; he likes to be advised by somebody who knows more than him”

So, we know how a brand would work this on the ground, in its own environment. Parmigiani Fleurier works with many partners though and is most visible in a multi-brand setting. What is your approach here?

I think Parmigiani Fleurier is clearly attractive to somebody who is well-educated in watchmaking and who usually prefers to shop in multi-brand environments. This is because a collector or a watch lover likes to browse and likes to compare; he likes to be advised by somebody who knows more than him.

And when you go into a mono-brand store, the staff there know a lot about their own brand, but they lose track of what is happening outside. So, you have an experience which is one-to- one on the brand, but you cannot compare. I know this from my experience with my previous company (Bulgari, where Terreni was in charge of watchmaking – Ed). The advisor who works in a professional multi-brand retailer is more of a neutral consultant who builds a relationship with a collector, and advises him on what works (or could work) for him.

Let me give you an example: I was in Germany, in Hamburg, and had dinner with two collectors that were very avid collectors – both wealthy and young. One of them was living in Berlin and I was going to Berlin the next day. I asked him why he drove three hours to have dinner with me instead of meeting me the next day. He told me that he was following his advisor, who had moved from Berlin to Hamburg (after a promotion). So this collector is still served by the same advisor because he trusts him; there is clearly a bond there (and this is what happens at the best multi-brand retailers).

This is why I am so keen to see how the new concept Sincere is doing in KL will go. The SHH space is more of a lounge than a store where you can pass the time, enjoy your hobby, and share your passion with people who are professional. (As a consequence) you do not only see things that are commercial.

And this is your take on the multi-brand retail experience versus what some watch brands are trying to do by creating their own mono-brand stores?

(As mentioned), the multi-brand (retail) advisor becomes a sort of consultant working in the interests of the watch lover (and of course the retailer) and creates a bond based on trust. You know there are so many novelties every year and you cannot navigate this, being concerned with your job, with your family, etcetera. It’s not everyone who has the time (and inclination) to study the industry. And so every year, you (the collector) ask your advisor what is new, what is exciting? What do you think would suit me? This you cannot do very well in a mono-brand environment (or even) in a multi-brand one

because you are focused on the commercial standard collections. Again, this is why the SHH is interesting to me. This is the right thing to do for the multi-brand retailer who wants to survive this war because there’s a hidden war between brands that are integrating their distribution and multi-brand retailers that are losing certain interesting brands as a consequence. To survive, they have to give a service which is bigger than the single relationship with (certain) brands that they carry.

If I were a multi-brand dealer, I would not do an event with a single brand. I would do an event on micro-rotor watches; I would do an event on chronographs; on calendars; or on the different styles that (are naturally present) in a multi-brand environment. I’m not a multi-brand retailer, so they do what they want, but if I were them this is what I would do!

Duly noted, and it will be published! Speaking then of micro-rotors and the retail experience, one final question on the Tonda PF. This is a watch that you need to see up close and feel, especially with the knurled bezel and the bracelet being as it is. Superficially, it looks very much like the Tonda GT Sport, but it is very different. The retail experience must be paramount here? And how does the brand go about making sure that fit and feel are excellent?

Well, what you’re asking is very smart because it’s very difficult to convey the comfort of any given watch with just a picture; to show it to a film. You don’t grasp the reality until you put it on your wrist.

And to design a comfortable watch is an art. It’s really not easy, and it has a lot to do with the weight (of the watch head, and of the materials used); with the way the watch sits on your wrist. It has a lot to do with the flexibility of the bracelet. All these ingredients have to come together to make an experience which is comfortable and I think the Tonda PF with micro-rotor is the most essential example – this watch started everything and forms the matrix of everything that we are doing. So, on the bracelet we did for the Tonda PF… When you design a bracelet, which is not a totally flexible bracelet but it’s a semi-rigid one, basically the designer has to choose an arc. This arc is a statistical curve of the entire population. It’s not your wrist; it’s not my wrist. OK, so in centimeters, my 17 1/2 wrist is different from yours because my bone structure is different from yours and so on.

And it’s not the wrist that has to adapt to the arc of the design; it’s the watch that has to adapt. To me, that’s why the flexibility of the bracelet is extremely important.

And there’s also the preferences of different markets where sometimes people are OK with having the watch sort of sit all the way towards the end of the wrist, and some people insist that no, no, it must sit (snugly) before the (protrusions of) the wrist bones.

This article first appeared on WOW’s Spring 2024 issue.

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